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 aldiboronti |
Luddlings |
Lead | |
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Posts: 8497 (03/08/02 17:45:19) |
Coasting through Google on a fishing expedition, I came across the fascinating site below, which is about the Indonesian propensity for secret languages. The point is that on this site they use the word `luddlings` as a synonym for slang languages. Where does this come from?
www.indonesianheritage.co...slang.html |
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DaveWilton |
Re: Luddlings | ||
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Posts: 7490 (03/09/02 07:47:51) Administrator |
It's a new one on me. Perhaps it's an Indonesian term?
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aldiboronti |
Re: Luddlings | ||
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Posts: 8497 (03/09/02 08:23:38) |
That`s what I thought at first. Dave, but you`ll notice that all the Indonesian words on the site are printed in an italic type. Odd one.
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wordgeek |
Luddlers R Us | ||
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Posts: 8928 (03/09/02 09:57:32) Banned User |
As someone who speaks reasonable Indonesian, and has spent a lot of time in Jakarta, I must confess that I have never heard "luddlings" nor many of the words in that article!
Fascinating stuff, aldi. "Luddlings" does not really *work* as a Malay word (Indonesian basically being tweaked Malay**), except insofar as the Dutch imports go. I would suggest you concentrate on Dutch to further track this down. Or...perhaps...it may be a VERY-recent coinage, in which case I would blame some Internet/Sci-Fi source, possibly by way of a nearby English-speaking country. I would look first at the chatroom activities of Singaporean universities. Possibly Indian. AFAIK, it has no currency in the Philippines (I will confirm this), which would be the other main staging-post for English in the area. I would also doubt Oz, which for some reason doesn't have much influence on anyone nearby. Unfortunately, I have lost touch with most of my Indonesian cewek...one of whom was razor-sharp when it came to pop culture. I think she's running a tattoo parlour since finishing her MBA.... In any case, I still think the word looks like DUTCH. ----- ** like American is to English, if you will. At most, like Portuguese is to Spanish. |
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wordgeek |
Better ludle than never | ||
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Posts: 8928 (03/09/02 11:06:59) Banned User |
> no currency in the Philippines....
I do in fact get one google hit referring to "Tagalog ludling" (one d): www.linguistlist.org/issu...-1208.html Of course, now we have "boontling" to deal with too! Actually, this article pointed me at the 3 gods of ludlism: Nathan Sanders and two authors mentioned in a footnote of one of his own articles (Bruce Bagemihl, Don Laycock). In another footnote, he also gives a host of synonyms/variants, and explains that ludling = Latin ludus (game) + lingua (language). So much for Denmark and King Ludd! (Altho one of those variants seems to be "double dutch"...I thought that was an ice cream?!) ling.ucsc.edu/~sanders/Pa...ccfl19.pdf ling.ucsc.edu/~sanders/Pa...rs-pqp.pdf [The reason I don't quote these better, or do not simply insert the footnotes here, is that the google-HTMLed version won't let me cut/paste! Worse yet, it crashes my PC when I even TRY! Time to re-install Acrobat, really.] I get the impression that Bagemihl may have coined the term in 1989. Can't find a copy of those earlier papers online. The following provides an amazing reading list tho: www.emich.edu/~linguist/i...5-764.html |
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aldiboronti |
Re: many thanks, m`lud | ||
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Posts: 8497 (03/09/02 12:20:01) |
Great sleuthing, wg! The whole concept of secret languages appeals to the kid in me (never far below the surface) and there are some strange and wonderful specimens on these sites. Now, anyone here frtom Marin County, CA?
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ElizaD |
Re: Luddlings | ||
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Posts: 5686 (03/09/02 13:33:04) |
Fascinating topic, so thanks to Aldi for introducing it and to wg for his research. I've copied the footnotes to which wg refers.
Ludlings are 'systematic deformations of ordinary language' (Laycock 1969), characterized by one or more productive phonological processes which are, generally speaking, semantically empty. Ludlings are also known in the literature as language games, speech disguises, play languages, argots, etc. See Laycock (1972) and Bagemihl (1989) for comprehensive discussion of ludlings in their various forms. 'Ludlings' (from Latin ludus 'game' and lingua 'language') are also referred to as play languages, language games, speech disguises, child's languages, secret languages, and argots (among other names) in other literature. I follow Bagemihl 1989 in the use of the term ludling since other terms have socio-linguistic connotations unrelated to the phonological issues at hand and/or are too burdensome to be used repetitively. |
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wordgeek |
open mouth, insert pastry | ||
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Posts: 8928 (03/09/02 20:12:06) Banned User |
Guess the fact that I put the Dutch in DENMARK exposes my *own* "secret language"....
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wordgeek |
Marin County | ||
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Posts: 8928 (03/10/02 00:15:34) Banned User |
Johnny Walker Lindh.
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wordgeek |
Waruno Madhi | ||
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Posts: 8928 (03/10/02 00:17:50) Banned User |
More interesting than his great overview (first link up there) is the guy's HISTORY!! Ohmigod!
w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/~wm/EGO/cv.html |
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aldiboronti |
Re: Waruno Madhi | ||
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Posts: 8497 (03/10/02 04:41:30) |
I just compared my CV with his; I can barely type through the tears.
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