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foolscap(d)	Hot Shot	Lead	[-]
Posts: 720 (06/19/06 06:28:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower series seems pretty well researched, but who knows? He has an elaborate description of a Spanish fort's use of "hot shot" against a British ship, and after the British took the fort, their use of it against the Spaniards. The cannon balls were pre-heated in order to set the ship on fire when they strike and become embedded in the wood. This would have been around the year 1800. Dave's discussion of "hotshot" in the Big List takes it back to British military use. Does Forester's account hold water? BTW, Forester was a favorite of both Hemingway and Churchill, but while he dramatized war he was nothing less than realistic in the depiction of its horrors.
Chris Patterson	Re: Hot Shot	#1	[-]
Posts: 652 (06/19/06 06:43:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	HERE is a previous thread (12-2003) on the subject. Dr. Techie states that he found an 1885 citation as an incendiary weapon. The thread mentions nothing of cannonballs.
Teeb22	Re: Hot Shot	#2	[-]
Posts: 149 (06/19/06 06:54:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	CP, *Quote:* The thread mentions nothing of cannonballs. Huh? This is from the thread you linked to: Hotshot was a cannon ball that was heated red hot and fired into wooden sailing ships. Did you mean to say, "The Big List mentions nothing of cannon balls"
Dr Techie	Re: Hot Shot	#3	[-]
Posts: 9773 (06/19/06 07:08:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Forester's description sounds plausible to me, though the "shot" might also have been smaller than the tradtional cannon-ball (e.g., heated grapeshot). The OED does not specifically describe this this technique, possibly because the use of "hot shot" to describe heated shot is not really a novel use of either word. However, there are several other incidental quotations that are consistent with the practice Forester describes. For example "1821 Edinb. Mag. Nov. 428/1 Bloody sessions to you, you ould tub of the devil!--May every tester [sixpence] you have nibbled from poor Michael Brennan..turn a red-hot shot to sink and to confound you!" One would like more context, but it seems to refer to a wish to sink a [pirate?] vessel with red-hot shot.
Chris Patterson	Re: Hot Shot	#4	[-]
Posts: 652 (06/19/06 07:18:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My mistake, Teeb. I meant that the thread mentions nothing verifiable about cannonballs being referred to as hot shots. Ironically, I wrote a paper this weekend about language ambiguity on the internet. Namely in regards to forum posting.
Teeb22	Re: Hot Shot	#5	[-]
Posts: 149 (06/19/06 07:26:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	CP, you're absolutely correct...about the thread having nothing verifiable about cannonballs/hot-shots and regarding the irony of your post! How long is your paper? You should talk to Dave about linking it or posting it permanently on Word Origins. I'd be interested to read it and there are certainly more than a few people who could benefit from such a post.
Chris Patterson	Re: Hot Shot	#6	[-]
Posts: 652 (06/19/06 07:38:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It's not even close to Word Origins caliber, but I do appreciate the notion. :-)
DaveWilton	Re: Hot Shot	#7	[-]
Posts: 7490 (06/19/06 11:44:26) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I just read the Hornblower book in question just a few months ago. I remember the battle sequence in question, but I don't recall any usage of "hot shot" jumping out at me--and because of the previous discussion I think I would have noticed if Forester had used the term other than as a literal noun phrase. (And I seem to recall that he uses "heated shot", but I'll have to double-check when I get home tonight.)
Syntinen Laulu	Re: Hot Shot	#8	[-]
Posts: 391 (06/19/06 13:31:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I doubt that anyone would ever have bothered to heat grapeshot, because grapeshot was essentially an anti-personnel weapon. If a human being is hit by a piece of grapeshot, the damage done is not hugely increased if the grapeshot is hot, whereas a red-hot roundshot (= cannonball) lodged in a ship's timbers has an excellent chance of setting it catastrophically on fire. At the least, such an event would require the enemy to divert a substantial proprtion of his manpower from fighting to firefighting.
DaveWilton	Re: Hot Shot	#9	[-]
Posts: 7490 (06/19/06 16:10:18) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've just looked and Forrester does indeed use "hot shot," only in the straight, literal sense. The book is Lieutenant Hornblower and the battle in question is in Chapter 10. Example: "How long," asked Bush, who had watched the whole process with a fascinated yet horrified interest, "before a hot shot burns through those wads and sets off the gun itself?" He also uses "red-hot shot" frequently.
Dr Techie	Re: Hot Shot	#10	[-]
Posts: 9773 (06/19/06 16:58:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There's a good discussion of the use of hot shot here.

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