hell for leather in Wordorigins Archive 12 (11/03-02/04) Forum

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hell for leather

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Unregistered(d)	hell for leather	Lead	[-]
Posts: 0 Oct 29 03 7:02 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Under the entry for "hell-bent for leather" is the notation that this expression is not to be confused with "hell for leather". What is the origin of the latter expression? It is familiar to me as a description of early sporty cars.
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dmadams	Re: hell for leather	#1	[-]
Posts: 3440 Oct 29 03 7:14 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Word Detective has it, fourth post down, right under two (no less) that mention Idaho. edit: the topic title there is 'Giddyap'.
ozziemaland	Re: hell for leather	#2	[-]
Posts: 5545 Oct 29 03 9:36 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	dma, I couldn't get your link to work [ed: until I retried after your next post]. (Word Detective gives Rudyard Kipling, 1889, for "hell for leather" meaning to ride a horse furiously.)
dmadams	Re: hell for leather	#3	[-]
Posts: 3440 Oct 29 03 9:48 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Weird. Works fine for me. Anyone else not getting there?
xsjsx	hell on..	#4	[-]
Posts: 1234 Oct 29 03 2:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"hell on women" is a phrase sometimes heard, but seems outdated now. see: http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/03/23/story786755733.asp "hell" meaning bad for, hard on, abusive of... as opposed to the sense in "hell on wheels" in which the person is hellish and has wheels rather than being abusive of wheels.
Faldage	Re: hell on wheels	#5	[-]
Posts: 2176 Oct 29 03 2:16 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Coined by H. L. Mencken to describe Roller Derby, IIRC.
xsjsx	hell on wheels	#6	[-]
Posts: 1234 Oct 29 03 6:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	one version: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/tcrr/peopleevents/e_hell.html and another (long): http://www.nps.gov/gosp/research/world_on_wheels.htm
OP Tipping	Re: hell on wheels	#7	[-]
Posts: 2198 Oct 29 03 6:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've never heard "hell-bent for leather", but "hell for leather" is a phrase I hear all the time.
gpp(d)	Re: hell on wheels	#8	[-]
Posts: 1562 Oct 29 03 11:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tipping, I'm with you--never heard it, and it doesn't make much sense. Apparently Morris has run across it though--either that, or he's faking it: hell bent for leather does not seem to have a single origin -- it is probably a blending of two other colloquial sayings, hell bent and hell for leather, into one phrase. This is at dma's Detective link. All it would mean to me is "Like, gotta have that leather, yo, dude!" Prolly an expression not desperately needed in Oz.
Faldage	Re: hell on wheels	#9	[-]
Posts: 2176 Oct 30 03 5:03 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	http://www.nps.gov/gosp/research/world_on_wheels.htm Ha! This board is really stuffing up my JDM! Gotta print out that second one to read in hardcopy. Thanks, palindromic one.
Jetty Jim	Re: hell on wheels	#10	[-]
Posts: 720 Oct 30 03 4:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've never heard "hell-bent for leather", but "hell for leather" is a phrase I hear all the time. The opposite is true for me, never having laid eyes (or ears) on the Dickensian version. Hell bent for leather is the generic form of hell bent on [insert activity or goal here], such as "He's hell bent on going home early today", or "hell bent on winning that prize". The ...for leather version mostly makes an oblique reference to an activity, such as "He's going at it hell bent for leather", implying speed or intensity of purpose.
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OP Tipping	Re: hell on wheels	#11	[-]
Posts: 2198 Oct 30 03 4:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	To be clear: I've heard "hell bent" and "hell for leather", but not "hell bent for leather".
spinellozone	hell is a spell	#12	[-]
Posts: 25 Nov 4 03 7:15 AM Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	hell is a well into witch we have fell so we yell and we yell but theres no one to tell from our cell so our minds turn to gell do you hear the bell better learn to spell for it is the smell(written word)non chemical scent trails used by humans TO DOMESTICATE US! without them we are just monkeys ALOHA NUI LOA
Dr Techie	Re: hell on wheels	#13	[-]
Posts: 9773 Nov 4 03 10:40 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Coined by H. L. Mencken to describe Roller Derby, IIRC. No, cited back to the mid-1800s in the OED2.
Faldage	Re: hell on wheels	#14	[-]
Posts: 2176 Nov 4 03 10:56 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	cited back to the mid-1800s As noted by our resident palindrome, above, under the mantle of darkness.
Dr Techie	Re: hell on wheels	#15	[-]
Posts: 9773 Nov 4 03 11:07 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As not noted, you mean. Hidden behind undescribed links, which, as a matter of policy, I don't follow unless I'm flush with spare time.
Faldage	Re: hell on wheels	#16	[-]
Posts: 2176 Nov 4 03 11:17 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	don't follow unless I'm flush with spare time. Ah! Hence the mantle of darkness.
xsjsx	mantle	#17	[-]
Posts: 1234 Nov 4 03 12:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	True, DrT... I cited but did not expound. It is a personal trait you see there- to expound would have been to confront and it was my preference to lay out what I'd found and let it stand on whatever legs it may have had... or not. Opinion?
Dr Techie	Re: mantle	#18	[-]
Posts: 9773 Nov 4 03 12:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	IMHO it's almost always preferable to provide a short description of what a reader might find at the link, such as "This site says it's older than that". (You'll notice that this form allows the confrontation to be second-hand.) This is especially valuable to those with slow connections, for whom the opening of a new link can mean a substantial wait. An exception might be made for links posted as responses to direct questions, where the intent is unambiguous (but this usually requires either that the question be the first post in the thread, and the link is the second, or the question is quoted as part of the link posting). This is all merely my opinion of what constitutes good practice, and I won't be offended if you ignore it as long as you won't be offended if I ignore posts that consists of unannotated links.
xsjsx	hell bent for leather	#19	[-]
Posts: 1234 Nov 16 03 10:16 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I realized, after hearing the song the other day, that the phrase 'hell bent for leather' occurs in the 'Rawhide' theme, which could explain why some of the US posters here were familiar with it but others were not. http://www.lyricsdepot.com/frankie-laine/rawhide.html
wordgeek	Re: hell bent for leather	#20	[-]
Posts: 8928 Nov 16 03 10:20 AM Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	> I won't be offended if you ignore it as long as you won't be offended if I ignore posts that consists of unannotated links. And neither of us will be offended if you ignore ElizaD! #:o)
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